Curse

Isileth · Nov 20, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

@People who say its optional.

If you dont grind them you end up with weaker skills than people who do. GW is ment to be skill>time, having to grind a title to be able to do as much damage as someone else is not skill>time.

darkknightkain · Nov 20, 2007, 03:26 AM // 03:26

Although I totally hated grinds, there are still something Kurzick/Luxon skills did MUCH better than the Sunspear, Lightbringer, and Grind of the North skills.

- The Kurzick/Luxon skills are account based. Therefore don't need to repeat that same GRIND for each and every single character that you have.
- The Kurzick/Luxon skills progression are less steep and start with a better base value. Even at the lowest level "Friends of Kurzick/Luxon (1)" the skills are still sort of passable for their function.

When joining groups, the title rank discrimination I faced for the Kurzick/Luxon track is much less compared to the discrimination I faced for the Sunspear, Lightbringer, and the four Grind of the North titles. Not that many people cared I only have "Friends of Kurzick (1)", but I've been frequently getting kicked out of groups due to not having as much Lightbringer/Grind of the North titles as the next guy.

wetsparks · Nov 20, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanyatta

Wasn't the selling point of the game to be an MMORPG without the monthly pay to play or the grind? Make those stupid PvE titles account-based already and eliminate the grinding!!!!!!!!!

The grind is there for people who want something to do besides beat the game again for the fiftieth time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isilith

@People who say its optional.

If you dont grind them you end up with weaker skills than people who do. GW is ment to be skill>time, having to grind a title to be able to do as much damage as someone else is not skill>time.

If you look at the skills, you find that when increasing in rank in either Kurzick or Luxon titles, the skills last one second longer, remove one more point of energy, or do one or two more points of damage or heal for one or two more health. If someone is so horrible to FFF for 100+ hours to get a couple more points here or there to get them through while using these skills, they have other issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

Although I totally hated grinds, there are still something Kurzick/Luxon skills did MUCH better than the Sunspear, Lightbringer, and Grind of the North skills.

- The Kurzick/Luxon skills are account based. Therefore don't need to repeat that same GRIND for each and every single character that you have.
- The Kurzick/Luxon skills progression are less steep and start with a better base value. Even at the lowest level "Friends of Kurzick/Luxon (1)" the skills are still sort of passable for their function.

When joining groups, the title rank discrimination I faced for the Kurzick/Luxon track is much less compared to the discrimination I faced for the Sunspear, Lightbringer, and the four Grind of the North titles. Not that many people cared I only have "Friends of Kurzick (1)", but I've been frequently getting kicked out of groups due to not having as much Lightbringer/Grind of the North titles as the next guy.

I say consider yourself lucky. If the leader of the group is so horrible as to think that (s)he needs pve skills at a high rank and needs the entire group to carry pve skills at a high rank to beat a certain mission or dungeon, you are better off not going with that group anyways. They would probably have failed and looked to blame anyone but themselves for it.

Might as well add that even with those comments I would love to see this title made easier, just because that is what I mostly do these days is working on titles. I have the skills for the simple reason that I like to get as many as possible, but I never use them because they didn't seem to be that great to me.

Keekles · Nov 20, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

/notsigned

There's no need for this. If you want to get the title, then you should have to work for it.

And in regard to the skill > time paradigm, you don't NEED the pve skills to kill a bunch of monsters in pve. You really don't, it's really not that hard, even in hard mode. -_-

Red Sonya · Nov 20, 2007, 05:18 AM // 05:18

The Faction/Kursick skills are far greater in value comparison than the majority of the GWEN PVE only skill list. Thus they should remain at 10 million and only the very ELITE amongst us will have them.

So /not signed because some things should just have to be worked for much harder and longer than other things. All things are NOT equal in the world of GW and that's the way it should be.

shoyon456 · Nov 20, 2007, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

The Faction/Kursick skills are far greater in value comparison than the majority of the GWEN PVE only skill list. Thus they should remain at 10 million and only the very ELITE amongst us will have them.

So /not signed because some things should just have to be worked for much harder and longer than other things. All things are NOT equal in the world of GW and that's the way it should be.

That's fine and dandy for you to think that, but when I bought guildwars 2 yrs ago, it was advertised as an "anti-grind" mmo where the playing field was level so that new players could easily immerse themselves. Your kind narrow minded view is what drove the game to the misconstruction of Anet's ideals that it is today.

New players will be scared to join, knowing that they will be outright at a disadvantage and behind in the game, this same sort of idea is what prevents me from picking up WoW.

EDIT

/signed-

but only to the part of the kurz/lux skills reaching their max attributes at a lower title level. Thus, those who really care about the max title "leetness" can still go for it, while others will still have to work to some extent to max out the skills

Isileth · Nov 20, 2007, 05:50 AM // 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

/notsigned

There's no need for this. If you want to get the title, then you should have to work for it.

And in regard to the skill > time paradigm, you don't NEED the pve skills to kill a bunch of monsters in pve. You really don't, it's really not that hard, even in hard mode. -_-

1) Its not about the title.

2) You dont need max armour either, you dont need a max weapon, you dont need 8 skills. That doesnt mean you arent at a disadvantage compared to someone who does have them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

The Faction/Kursick skills are far greater in value comparison than the majority of the GWEN PVE only skill list. Thus they should remain at 10 million and only the very ELITE amongst us will have them. So /not signed because some things should just have to be worked for much harder and longer than other things. All things are NOT equal in the world of GW and that's the way it should be.

I quote the holy text of the guild wars proph box.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Prophecies Box

You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory.

So yeah, it shouldnt be about grinding to be better than other players. Being able to play more than someone else should not result in them being more powerful. The skill of the player should be what counts, not how much time they spend grinding.

wetsparks · Nov 20, 2007, 06:17 AM // 06:17

and contrary to popular belief, it still is

Snow Bunny · Nov 20, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

@People who say its optional.

If you dont grind them you end up with weaker skills than people who do. GW is ment to be skill>time, having to grind a title to be able to do as much damage as someone else is not skill>time.

Guild Wars skill>time was describing PvP, if I remember correctly. In games like WoW, your level and gear are what is important, not your skill. GW was advertised as dependant on player skill.

Honestly, they're pve skills. Just be grateful you have them.

Isileth · Nov 20, 2007, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Guild Wars skill>time was describing PvP, if I remember correctly. In games like WoW, your level and gear are what is important, not your skill. GW was advertised as dependant on player skill.

Honestly, they're pve skills. Just be grateful you have them.

Again I quote the holy text of the GW proph box

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Prophecies Box

You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory.

Horrific monsters...hmmm, that screams pve to me.

Snow Bunny · Nov 20, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Again I quote the holy text of the GW proph box

Horrific monsters...hmmm, that screams pve to me.

Ok. fine

You don't need the skills. They won't make that much of a difference. I'm not kidding you. The difference between a 4 second Save Yourself and a 5 second Save Yourself is....1 second. Fancy that.

Have you realized no PvPer comes here whining about maxing out Champion/Glad/Hero title?

c wut i did thar? o shi-

Sakura Az · Nov 20, 2007, 08:12 AM // 08:12

i'm perfectly fine with the max being at 10 mill faction, in the last month i've gotten nearly 750k faction donated, so its easily with in reach. and i've done other things than AB too. got the black moa, helped a guildie beat prophices, ran around helped others, nearly clear FoW.. i think i might play gw too much.. that asside the 10mill faction limit is good, its way easy to get faction anymore. 1 win in the ancestral lands as a luxon is 2.5k faction.. a loss there is usualy 1k faction or more.

the pve skills are already pretty over powered, and i don't see the need to change them. triple shot+nearly any prep=bye bye half health on nearly any pve monster.

oh i should mention it took me about 2 months of abing to even get r2 luxon befor the title was changed. then i kinda didn't ab much for about 6 months.

Isileth · Nov 20, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

You don't need the skills. They won't make that much of a difference. I'm not kidding you. The difference between a 4 second Save Yourself and a 5 second Save Yourself is....1 second. Fancy that.

Well there isnt much difference between 60AL and 58AL right?
So would it be ok to link max AL to a title?

It doesnt matter if the difference is only a few seconds of a skill, or a few points of dmg. What matters is there is a difference.

For a game that advertises as skill>time, you would assume that it was skill>time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Have you realized no PvPer comes here whining about maxing out Champion/Glad/Hero title?

c wut i did thar? o shi-

Because skills arent linked to PvP titles?

Im sure if you added skills to the PvP titles you would get more than a few complaints.

Its not about the titles, its about the skills linked to them.

pumpkin pie · Nov 20, 2007, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

I don't want to get them at a decent level by tomorrow, but also I don't want to spend 1 year for that.

And I should not be required to PvP to get a decent level for PvE-only skills. It's a clear contradiction.

i gain 2 levels during the last double faction weekend , try it, and not the whole day, probably 4-5 hours saturday and 4-5 hours sunday, totalling 10 hours during the last double faction weekend. I wans't counting, but I was level 3 then. I am now level 5. Has not done any AB since that Weekend so it must be 2 levels during that weekend alone. hence I said its easy.

eagerly waiting for the next double faction weekend, level 7 here i come!

wetsparks · Nov 20, 2007, 08:53 AM // 08:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Well there isnt much difference between 60AL and 58AL right?
So would it be ok to link max AL to a title?

It doesnt matter if the difference is only a few seconds of a skill, or a few points of dmg. What matters is there is a difference.

For a game that advertises as skill>time, you would assume that it was skill>time.

Or say the difference between a 13^50 mod and a 15^50 mod. The damage difference is slim at best, just like the difference between different ranks in the kurzick/luxon tracks effects on the skills.

Isileth · Nov 20, 2007, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Yes its slim, but a difference is still there.

Removing the skills from the title simply means everyone gets them at the same level. No grind required to be able to do as much damage as the next player.

Skill>Time

Cebe · Nov 20, 2007, 09:13 AM // 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumpkin pie

eagerly waiting for the next double faction weekend, level 7 here i come!

Good Luck!

There's quite a difference between levels 3-5 and levels 5-7 you know

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkknightkain

- The Kurzick/Luxon skills are account based. Therefore don't need to repeat that same GRIND for each and every single character that you have.
- The Kurzick/Luxon skills progression are less steep and start with a better base value. Even at the lowest level "Friends of Kurzick/Luxon (1)" the skills are still sort of passable for their function.

I also like the fact the Allegiance titles are account based. A while back I decided to try to get Rank 5 and it was nice to be able to swap characters when I got bored of one whilst playing AB. You're also right about the base value of the skills. Most are "ok and useable" at Rank 1, but with promises of becomming better if you want to make them so. An exception I guess would be "Save Yourselves!"...3 seconds at Rank 1...I never like that. Most others are pretty decent at low level:

Triple Shot: More often than not used with Nightmare Weapon I would think, which makes the damage it deals mostly useless anyway.
Elemental Lord: 30 seconds at Rank 1...not too shabby. At half way up the title track it's 1 second off covering itself. (we'll ignore the fact I don't like this skill for now.)
Aura of Holy Might: At Rank 1 it has a decent AoE holy damage, and I suppose is a non-elite version of Vow of Strength, allowing you to take another elite, or stack them.
Summon Spirits: It's primary use is to move spirits, which it can do at Rank 1. The only thing higher ranks do is to heal spirits, which, unless the spirits are designed to lose health, makes the health gain a little useless since a good Ritualist can place their spirits intelligently.
Spear of Fury: Decent +damage and with Adrenaline Gain on top. 3 strikes of adrenaline can be gained with mild investment in the title track.

Given most of the PvE skills work ok at Rank 1, and with mild investment (say, rank 4 or 5), become much better, I wouldn't say the title track needs to be made "less gindy". People should need to do some sort of work to earn a better skill. I hadn't even considered working on my allegiance track until these PvE skills came out, but not because I feel I must, but because it makes me want to. Every time I go up a rank, and see the skills getting better, it makes me feel all warm and tingly inside.

pumpkin pie · Nov 20, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Good Luck!

There's quite a difference between levels 3-5 and levels 5-7 you know

Thanks!

yeap, i know, i am thinking happy thoughts regarding that. if I don't get it to 7 I'll wait for another double faction weekend.

arcanemacabre · Nov 20, 2007, 10:58 AM // 10:58

The Kurzick/Luxon titles' linked skills, although having an enormous amount of points to max, really have a lot going for them. Key points:

1) Account-wide: Biggest point for me, you actually benefit more by having more characters with these, as opposed to all the other effect- and skill-linked titles. (except lucky, obviously)
2) Multiple ways of acquisition: Grinding is not the only way to get them, you can also earn faction through AB/FA/JQ.
3) Power of skills scale very minimally: There isn't a huge gap in power between level 1 and level 10, making most of them useful right off the bat.

For these reasons, I don't really mind them as they are. I still think it's a bad idea having skills linked to titles, but these are the least of my concern. SS/LB/Rep titles are my biggest beef, and will remain so until they fix them with at least 1 of the three key points listed above.

milan · Nov 20, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

It's all been said already. Anet have bent over backwards to help PvE players with this title track.

If people are so unhappy with the situation, just remove those skills.